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Topic: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Replies: 68   Pages: 1   Last Post: Nov 3, 2009 3:34 PM by: Jason Philip Ward

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Replies: 68
Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 12, 2009 11:23 PM
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On Saturday January 10, 2009 a meeting was called to discuss the growing concerns surrounding the ASQ Discussion Boards. As Chair of the Division Affairs Council I chaired the meeting. My reason for doing so was due to the large number of Discussion Boards directly related to Divisions and their effect on the success of the Global Strategy. Further as a leader with the Board of Directors I could have a strong impact on the Board for any actions required by them.

It was suggested that the meeting could have been held virtually. However, I felt the face-to-face session was necessary to have the full effect of the give and take necessary to get to the best solutions possible. This method did require as small a group as possible. Invited was a representative of the Section Affairs Council (a Board member), a Board member at large active on the discussion boards, a past Board member active on the discussion boards, a member of the ASQ headquarters management committee, ASQ staff assigned to the discussion boards, and a moderator who had many concerns over the past few years regarding the activity.

In general the agenda included the following points, although the meeting bounced between them frequently as the discussion ensued:

• Concerns, Past Difficulties, Attempted Solutions
• Role of the Moderator
• Management of Discussion Boards (Commencing, Deleting, Censorship, etc.)
• Volunteer Role vs Staff Role
• Ethical Conduct Management

Over the past several months I was alerted to a great deal of activity on the discussion boards where a number of concerns relative to the adequacy of the management and support of the boards had been questioned by several moderators. Further, there appeared to be a significant level of angst regarding comments made by some participating on the boards. Finally, brief surveys or inquiries of participants on the boards indicated the level of satisfaction deteriorating not only due to the concerns raised but in the manner in which they were raised. In short, the discussion boards had become troublesome to the point of turning participants away, regardless of their affiliation or of their position on the issues.

At the meeting we first discussed all of these concerns and tried to get out all the frustrations that were in play. It was clear that all parties in the meeting had arrived at similar points, albeit from different directions, as to what the issues were with the management of the discussion boards. This provided all with a platform on which to find solutions. The issues noted included:

• Lack of leadership response to postings
• Role of the moderator
• Role of staff
• Role of member leaders
• Flaming and respect
• Impact on staff time dealing with difficult situations on the discussion boards
• Movement of discussions to appropriate board
• Dual role – member leader and moderator, which hat is being worn
• Dissenting opinions
• No one with authority to move posts around

It soon became clear that ASQ had embarked on this activity without a properly clear strategy. Processes and defined management were not in place to provide an environment for the boards to be used as effectively as possible. Further, promises were made by past leadership without the necessary follow-up with the change of ASQ leadership throughout the years. Several moderators and staff tried to meet the perceived needs of the discussion boards, however when differing views of what managing the boards meant inevitably occurred, division of thought ensued and ultimately the frustrations manifested themselves into troublesome relationships, some of which spilled over onto posts on the discussion boards.

The discussions at the meeting were at times heated and this was expected. It would be inconceivable for such hard feelings over a long period of time to be quickly let go in one day. But I can say that all parties work very hard to get past such feelings to finalize the heart of the issues and the possible solutions.

The agreed-upon solutions are as follows:

• Moderators for all boards
Although there are only a few discussion boards without a moderator, it became clear that a more proactive management of each of the boards was necessary. This also will help minimize the growth of the number of boards in that an active moderator would have to step forward. Timeline for Completion-February 2009

• Discussion board oversight
It was decided the discussion boards are considered a vital component to several growth strategies of the Society. Therefore a more structured oversight is necessary. I will be contacting President Roberto Saco to request a member of the Board of Directors be assigned the ongoing task to manage the discussion boards with a committee composed of volunteering moderators and headquarters staff. Time for Completion-February 2009

• Review and evaluate current board to Consolidate, archive, reorganize/order
As a casual user of the discussion boards it was clear to me they are not presented in a manner that is as logical as possible, with a number of boards possibly discussing similar topics, public boards harder to find, and inactive boards being prevalent. Some of these points will be corrected as new software is implemented. Also a review of the boards is underway to eliminate inactive discussions and to find ways to organize them better. In addition some reorganization is possible now. Finally, the newly-formed management committee will be able to apply longer term strategies. Timeline for Completion-May 2009

• Development and training of moderators, self directed learning
As the moderator will become more pivotal in the success of the discussion boards, it was felt training and development would be advisable. The newly formed committee will be tasked with the development and delivery of this training. As the outcome necessary here is unknown, we cannot set a timeline for this now but will report the expected date of rollout when the committee meets.

• Explore moderator eligibility for RUs with the cert board
As stated earlier, moderators will have a pivotal role in the success of the discussion boards. Therefore it is desired to provide incentives for the moderators such as recertification units for participation for those moderators who are members of the Society. Again, the formed committee will have to be tasked with this action.

As you will note above, there was little discussion of the software suggested by some on the threads in the discussions. Updated software has been purchased and is undergoing IT review for delivery. As you may imagine, there are a number of issues when new software is to be installed and this is being considered. The updated software is designed to provide for a more pleasant atmosphere and management of the discussion boards. However, it was felt early on in the meeting that most of the pressing issues were not software related but management and process related. Therefore, without corrections, even updated software would not have eased the current concerns.

In addition, the issue of ethical conduct regarding the discussion boards was discussed. This is increasingly necessary as it is possible for non-ASQ members to not only post on the boards but could even become moderators. Once we reviewed the current terms of service and moderators guidelines, it was determined these should be sufficient for the time being and a more active method of agreeing to these terms would be explored prior to someone posting.

I cannot state the meeting and its conclusions will solve all the issues and concerns once and for all. There is much history and time will heal. However I am very pleased with the outcome and will continue to work, with the appointed leader from the Board of Directors, to make the discussion boards a strong component of the Society.

Steven Wilson
Board of Directors
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 13, 2009 10:42 AM
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I was at the January 10 meeting, and I would like to thank Steve Wilson for taking the lead on these issues. I support and endorse the action plan that has been laid out.

Steve Prevette
Moderator of three boards,
ASQ CQE,
Secretary of ASQ Section 614.


Duke Okes

Posts: 524
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 13, 2009 12:39 PM
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Thanks for taking on this task. Looking forward to the improvements.


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards   [Points awarded to this message: 1 1 pts ]
Posted: Jan 13, 2009 2:22 PM
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Steve,

Thank you for taking on this problematic task. It appears that it was a basically constructive meeting and positive results of the meeting will appear in the near future.

It is my personal opinion that the Discussion Boards are a valuable member asset that is greatly underutilized by the general membership. It is a venue where informative discourse can be had benefiting both the experienced quality professional in exchanging ideas as well as the novice seeking advice from the more experienced professionals.

This is a venue that ASQ should ensure that we have a highly effective and professional presentation of how we apply our own quality methodologies to improve processes and outcomes. It would appear that this may very well start occurring as a result of the meeting. As a result, we should have a Discussion Board that will highlight the professionalism of both the organization and the membership.

In reviewing the number of boards with a moderator, I noted that only 60% of the Boards have a moderator. I would suggest that having a moderator (with an email address to contact that moderator) is a critical aspect of managing the Boards. Perhaps, in your revision of the Boards, it should be a requirement that a Division or Forum take responsibility for the Discussion Board which means that they would ensure that there is a moderator for each Board.

Again, I would like to thank you for your efforts to address the issues regarding the Boards and for fostering steps to improve the Boards. I especially would like to extend my appreciation to Steve Prevette for taking the time to attend the meeting to present the concerns of the moderators.

John Harrison
Moderator, Healthcare Discussion Board


Aimee Siegler

Posts: 70
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 15, 2009 1:00 PM
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John,

I agree that the discussion boards are a valuable asset, and when I've needed to get information, they have always been a good source for answers.

One of the things that we agreed to at meeting was that all of the boards needed to have a moderator by ~ the end of February. All of us were in violent agreement that this needed to happen.

I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements and contributing to the process.

Aimee Siegler
Member Leader Discussion Board Moderator


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 15, 2009 2:06 PM
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Aimee,

I noted Steve's comment about getting moderators for all boards but I wanted to suggest that the Divisions/Forums also get some ownership of the Discussion Boards that relate to their area of interest. If there is a Discussion Board that really doesn't fit into the realm of interest of a Division/Forum, then probably there is no need for that Board. Also, with Division/Forum sponsorship, getting volunteer moderators for the Boards may be easier.

Just a suggestion.

John


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 15, 2009 9:46 PM
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John

You have hit upon one of the problems that were uncovered during the review of the processes for the boards. When the discussion boards were set up, it was determined that each Division would have a discussion board. Unfortunately it was decided this would occur without asking the Division if they wanted one. Clearly the discussion boards are a good source of networking and gaining information, but this was a flaw in our thinking. As you say, without the buy in there is little activity.

We will be working with each Division to determine if they desire to keep a discussion board. If so, they will be required to have a moderator and keep the board active.


Geoffrey Withnell

Posts: 700
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 16, 2009 12:46 PM
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Please keep us updated and let us know when we can help with this work. I could probably take on another board to moderate, since I tend to scan the boards on a daily basis anyway. I am a member of the Government Division, whose board lacks a moderator, so that would be good.

Geoff Withnell
Quality Management Board Moderator


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 11:57 AM
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Steve,

Just as some FYI. Today, Saturday, the public boards were hit by a spammer pretty heavily. Some of the boards that were hit do not have a moderator so the spam will have to stay on the boards until Monday when Web Offerings can get them off. There were a couple of boards that did have a moderator but no email to contact the moderator to inform him/her of the spam on their board.

I have posted a message on the moderator board requesting that all moderators please have Web Offerings put their email address on their Board so they can be contacted when they get spammed or they need to intervene on some other inappropriate message.

Steve, we moderators need some method of removing spam on these non-moderated boards when Web Offerings is not available. During Christmas break, this was a rather prolonged problem with spam because ASQ offices, to include Web Offerings, were closed.

Suggestion?

John Harrison
Moderator, Healthcare Discussion Board


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards   [Points awarded to this message: 2 2 pts ]
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 12:36 PM
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Yes, I noticed the SPAM also this morning (Saturday). I deleted the SPAM on "my" board, and posted a note at the Moderators Forum to alert others.

This topic was brought up at the meeting. The line item "Movement of discussions to appropriate board" does focus on that the member-moderators only have the ability to affect their own boards, and the only people that can do global changes are ASQ Staff. We did discuss the idea of "super moderators" who could have global ability across the boards.

To Steve Wilson- here is another datum point that we need some way for moderation access across the boards.

- Steve Prevette


> Steve,
>
> Just as some FYI. Today, Saturday, the public boards
> were hit by a spammer pretty heavily. Some of the
> boards that were hit do not have a moderator so the
> spam will have to stay on the boards until Monday
> when Web Offerings can get them off. There were a
> couple of boards that did have a moderator but no
> email to contact the moderator to inform him/her of
> the spam on their board.
>
> I have posted a message on the moderator board
> requesting that all moderators please have Web
> Offerings put their email address on their Board so
> they can be contacted when they get spammed or they
> need to intervene on some other inappropriate
> message.
>
> Steve, we moderators need some method of removing
> spam on these non-moderated boards when Web Offerings
> is not available. During Christmas break, this was a
> rather prolonged problem with spam because ASQ
> offices, to include Web Offerings, were closed.
>
> Suggestion?
>
> John Harrison
> Moderator, Healthcare Discussion Board


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 23, 2009 8:39 PM
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I have a brief update on our efforts to improve the discussion boards.....

I am working with the staff at ASQ headquarters regarding moderators and their abilities to make modifications to the boards. Although I agree that items such as the SPAM over the last weekend is a real problem, we also need to be cognizant of the leadership of those discussion boards "owned" by Divisions and other member units with elected leadership. As one of the requests is for moderators to be able to move posts to a more appropriate location, some view this as problematic. Some have actually used strong language in this regard.

I do think this is a necessary step to keep the boards active and fresh and I am moving to have some level of moderator powers but I am asking for a little time to work this out.

As for the view of the boards when you enter the main room....

When you come in as a non-member, the public boards go first and the member only boards second. However, if you log in as a member, the member boards are listed first. My thinking is this is preferable and therefore I am not making plans to change this. However, we are working to make one discussion board--"Ask a quality professional"--to be listed on top no matter how you are logged in as this is a general enough category that may interest all.

More as it all unfolds.

Steven Wilson
Board of Directors
Chair, Division Affairs Council


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 24, 2009 12:52 PM
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Steve W.

Your continued efforts regards improving the management of the boards are noted and really appreciated!

Thank you for your efforts!

John


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards   [Points awarded to this message: 1 1 pts ]
Posted: Jan 25, 2009 3:33 PM
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Perhaps a compromise on the ability to move threads across discussion boards is to separate out the "general" boards such as Certification, Ask A QA Professional, Students in Quality and if the current moderators and sponsors agree, assign primary moderators and backup moderators across ALL of these boards so that postings may be moved, such as from Ask A QA Pro to Certification, which currently only ASQ staff may do.

On the boards owned by Divisions who are against movement of threads into or out of their boards, they could strictly have their own moderators. Though - they would need to provide a moderator who will be checking up on SPAM on their boards, and have an email address to be reached at.

Just one possibility of many.

- Steve Prevette


Steven Wilson
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jan 25, 2009 4:01 PM
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These are the types of methods under consideration. Thanks for the information.

Steven Wilson


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Mar 2, 2009 12:39 PM
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Its been over a month since your last communication. Any update?
- Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


Steven Wilson
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Mar 2, 2009 1:20 PM
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Yes, Wes.

I am sorry my day job has been a little busy and time got away from me.

A new advisory committee has been formed to oversee non-technical communities. This committee will be headed by Rick Perlman, a member of the Board and of the DAC. The Discussion Boards will be managed under this committee. I waited to inform everyone of this until the elections were completed and Rick was confirmed as re-elected in his position.

I am working to finalize what I agreed to shepherd so that I can pass the torch to Rick. The final two points were the number of boards without a moderator (mostly from the Divisions) and the concept of a super moderator.

I have been slow in getting out the request of the Divisions to appoint a moderator and I will get this done. It has been decided that all boards must have a moderator. However, it was also determined that, to give all moderators the powers to make the necessary adjustments to the boards that have been requested would be too much. Ultimately, the concept of the super moderator is acceptable and Rick and his group will determine the best way to make this possible.

With those two points I feel I can responsibly pass this effort to Rick by the end of March. Rick will have a conference call/meeting with his new committee and will deal with the governance of the discussion boards then. I will be present at the first meeting to provide continuity.

I thank all who made this effort as successful as it has been to date and it is my hope the same level of commitment and support will be provided to Rick when he assumes his position in full.

I will contact you all with the final details as well as provide a final report of the outcomes of the tasks first handled by my efforts.


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 28, 2009 4:22 PM
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It has now been more than 3 months since the meeting in January. The boards still look visually the same, plus more boards are being added. This has led to complaints both here and on other discussion boards.

Where do we stand?

- Steve


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 28, 2009 7:18 PM
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Thank you, Steve for the reminder.

I have received a complete matrix of the boards and their activity. From this we will develop a criteria to determine when to archive or delete a board.

Further, I have requested all Division boards that do not have a moderator to assign one. I have also requested that if they do not desire to have their boards to remove them. I have given them until the end of April to make those changes. After that we will work with those who are having difficulty.

As for new boards being added, I will submit that whether or not a difficulty exists with this is dependent upon their lack of activity or whether a duplicate board, or close to it, already exists. Again, this is part of the change process and I did not expect this to change quickly.

I am not sure what your concern as to the look of the boards is. In any case, I prefer to work on the "behind the scenes" mechanics then deal with the cosmetics.

We are behind my personal timeline but with all the Society business that is occurring I am comfortable with the pace of change. You should also be comfortable in that you should certainly see more change than before as well as more interaction, even if it is not what you desire completely.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 5:47 AM
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> Thank you, Steve for the reminder.
>
> I have received a complete matrix of the boards and
> their activity. From this we will develop a criteria
> to determine when to archive or delete a board.
>
> Further, I have requested all Division boards that do
> not have a moderator to assign one. I have also
> requested that if they do not desire to have their
> boards to remove them. I have given them until the
> end of April to make those changes. After that we
> will work with those who are having difficulty.
>
> As for new boards being added, I will submit that
> whether or not a difficulty exists with this is
> dependent upon their lack of activity or whether a
> duplicate board, or close to it, already exists.
> Again, this is part of the change process and I did
> d not expect this to change quickly.
>
> I am not sure what your concern as to the look of the
> boards is. In any case, I prefer to work on the
> "behind the scenes" mechanics then deal with the
> cosmetics.
>
> We are behind my personal timeline but with all the
> Society business that is occurring I am comfortable
> with the pace of change. You should also be
> comfortable in that you should certainly see more
> change than before as well as more interaction, even
> if it is not what you desire completely.

>
> Steven Wilson
> Chair, Division Affairs Council


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Still sounds like foot dragging to me. Question I have in mind, Steve, is
"Are YOU dragging or is the bureaucratic ASQ staff [and managers] doing the dragging?"
-Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 7:41 AM
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Wes

I can certainly understand any frustration you may have. However, "footdragging" implies the task is not desired to be completed. Nothing is further from the truth.

If it is the desire to place blame, place it squarely upon my shoulders. I have been busy not only with work but with various ASQ responsibilities that were unforeseen in January. The ASQ staff have been very helpful in moving me along.

Finally, I want to make clear a point that I tried to make clear at the January meeting and other writings. The management of the Discussion Boards, as in any other ASQ activity, is volunteer driven, not staff driven. There are a multitude of activites the staff perform that support what the volunteers are trying to establish and maintain. But they are not set, nor should they, as the decision makers of any such element.

My delay is unfortunate. But I will not make desicions before I am ready and have put what is necessary in place. As I stated previously, I am open to all constructive suggestions.

Steven Wilson
Chair
Division Affairs Council


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards   [Points awarded to this message: 2 2 pts ]
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 2:32 PM
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Steve,

I don't wish to "blame" plus I do know, for a fact, that you do have a LOT on your plate. However, this is an on-going problem.

Constructive suggestion - Assign "someone" (not a committee) to oversee the Discussion Boards. I believe that if there is some personal oversight and "ownership" of the Boards, along with "communication" with moderators, many of the issues could be avoided.

You committed to reducing the number of unnecessary boards. Recently one board concerning Healthcare Quality suddenly appeared. I know it was not discussed, sponsored or endorsed by the Healthcare Division. It was suggested on the moderator's board that this topic could have been handled as a thread on an existing board, eliminating the need for yet another board. Constructive suggestion - ask for input from the moderators using the moderator discussion board how a new topic could be handled without creating a new board or if a new board is warranted. You might get some good feedback.

It would be helpful to know what the process was to decide that this new board was necessary. How was the decision made? Was there input from a "committee"? If not, where did the input come from? A little openness would be helpful. Also, if this one "just slipped through the cracks", saying so would help and having a corrective action to ensure that only appropriate new boards will be initiated in the future would help.

Again, Steve, you have a lot on your plate. Constructive suggestion, assign "someone", even on a temporary basis, to assume responsibility for the boards. The board can be, and should be, a valuable member benefit, and it can, on the public boards, be a good avenue to gain interest in ASQ, IF they are well managed. This means someone has to take "ownership" of the boards.

Thanks, Steve.

John


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 2:40 PM
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John

There are two extremely useful points here...

First, the committee was designed specifically to draft those processes which you discuss, such as how does a new board get cleared. Currently the practice of any discussion board, ASQ or not, is to allow people to start one as they see the need. I personally think this is contrary to what we are trying to accomplish and I agree it needs to be addressed.

The second point is the assigning of an individual who manages the discussion boards. This is the charge of the Non-technical Advisory Committee headed by Rick Perlman. I agreed to do the quick fix, get base processes going, and then hand the ball to Rick. I have just done so in the last three days, although I am cleaning up some issues that fall on the DAC shoulders. the new committee has begun its meetings and are working on such concerns.

So, we seem to agree. As for much on my plate, true enough. Unfortunately, everytime I finish a portion, three more majically appear! So I am not certain as to just how well I can accomplish this charge....

Finally however, it is important to note that one main complaint from several on the boards was the perception that nobody was listening. This was my main concern and although responses are not as fast as some would like them, they are there and more frequent than before.

Now for the volunteer side. John, did I hear you stepping up to the plate to help Rick with this??

Steven Wilson
Chair
Division Affairs Council


William Pflanz

Posts: 1,405
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 3:20 PM
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Steve,

I will volunteer to manage the board. To do that I will need to become a super moderator so that I can implement the changes. All recommendations for changes to the board or problems with it would be done through the Moderators forum has suggested by John. Obviously Web Offerings and ASQ staff are not only free to participate in the discussions but will provide necessary input.

I have the time to be active on the board so it should speed up the required changes. I could also free up many of the mundane work not done by Web Offerings. Changes that require Web Offerings assistance will not be made until approval is obtained since I understand time and work must be budgeted.

Bill Pflanz


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 3:26 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Bill

I will pass the message on to Rick

Steven


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 29, 2009 4:05 PM
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I also volunteer as a "super moderator". One potential "quick fix" proposed in January was to move some of the more used boards to the top of the page, such as "Ask a QA Pro" and "Certification". That would also make it more obvious to a new user that these boards are good starting points, rather than "Discussion Board Suggestions and Feedback". What is currently preventing that from happening?

- Steve Prevette


William Pflanz

Posts: 1,405
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 30, 2009 6:51 AM
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I would be more than happy to share responsibilities with Steve. In fact, that would make the boards much more efficient since we can both observe problems and react quicker.

Bill Pflanz


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 30, 2009 7:41 AM
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Apparently, what is considered an easy fix turns out to make your hair fall out.

It is agreed that certain boards should be at the top for the newbies entering into the site to get base information. However, there are two reasons this won't work as efficiently as we desire.

First is the software. The current practice, either by default or hard wired, is to list the boards alphabetically. Therefore, if anything comes before "Ask" in "Ask a Quality Professional" it will be listed first. I am working on a fix.

But the other reason is even more eye-opening. It depends entirely upon how you enter the site. If you log in as a guest (public) the public boards are listed first and many of the boards are in a good position as we want. But it you log in as a member, those boards you speak of are at the bottom. Although you could assume that a member may or may not be a newbie, it does cause issues.

The DAC and SAC have approved funds for the new software and we are working to get it purchased and installed. Although this is not the most satisfactory of answers, it is what it is. In the procurement of new software, especially for a non-profit group, we must take care it does not conflict with our other web work, and we must get the best choice regarding price, support, and specification. Again, it is being processed and not forgotten.

I am sure I will get a lot of frustration hits on this reply. However, I cannot attest to or discuss what happened prior to my involvement. I can only tell you what I have been doing since November when I took hold of this project.

Steven Wilson
Chair
Division Affairs Council


William Pflanz

Posts: 1,405
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards   [Points awarded to this message: 1 1 pts ]
Posted: Apr 30, 2009 9:46 AM
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Actually you are the first person that has really talked to us about new software. For those of us who have done a lot of work on IT systems, I do not find it unreasonable to first verify how new software works in the existing system. That is good business practice.

I hope that everyone is considering the type of problems that we currently have in selecting the new software. There needs to be more flexibility in arranging forums and grouping them in a logical manner. Maybe a log in should be required of everyone even if they are a non-member. It still keeps it public but allows better monitoring of board use.

Bill Pflanz


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 30, 2009 11:52 AM
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Steve,

Let me REALLY thank you. You have really responded quite well to this issue and I am hearing real progress being made. We all can accept that things can take time but this kind of communication is really essential and really appreciated when progress moves slowly. You now have your extremely well qualified volunteers to help monitor the boards and I am hearing their willingness to work with Web Offerings and with you to effect necessary changes.

Sounds like we are off to a good start. Now if we can only put a functional brake on starting new boards!

Thank you very much, Steve, for your time and patience in this effort!

John


Richard Ickler

Posts: 624
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Apr 30, 2009 8:19 PM
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> Actually you are the first person that has really
> talked to us about new software. For those of us who
> have done a lot of work on IT systems, I do not find
> it unreasonable to first verify how new software
> works in the existing system. That is good business
> practice.
>

I hope that everyone keeps in mind that one of the big issues with the current software was that it "magically" appeared and the decision and implementation were "irrevocable" (according to the ASQ Staff). This after numerous offers (consistently ignored or refused by the staff) by technically qualified members to participate in choosing the new software and the desired features. A lot of hard feelings were created by the staff of a membership organization essentially telling the members "we know better than you and we don't want your input when we spend your money". Steven's comment is giving me a lot of "deja vu all over again" vibes and I hope that isn't the situation.


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 1, 2009 7:44 AM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Richard

I would say that, at least this time, that is not the case. However, let me provide as full an explanation as possible.

As I stated at the beginning of the thread, the development and implementation of the ASQ Discussion Boards was not well planned. All agree on this, including staff. This included the software used. Therefore, when the issue of upgrading the software was brought up, the first concern was that it was not budgeted and no funds were available. So the Division Affairs Council and the Section Affairs Council, considering this a priority, agreed to provide funding from their accounts, just as was done to improve the websites. However, this meant that we had a say in the choice and features of the software. So member input is in process. But before I get a whole stream of comments as to what it should do, please understand we will probably never be in the position to purchase the Cadillac--we will go more for the Buick! (and I am sure THAT will get me a lot of posts as well!)

But I want to bring out one small point. The ASQ staff does not answer to the membership. They work for the Society Executive Officer who reports to the Board of Directors. He is charged with the responsibility of attempting to meet the needs of the entire Society within a defined budget. So, as in any business, decisions must be made as to priority concerns and whenever a decision is made, someone is not happy. This is not to say the Discussion Boards are not a priority, we have shown this is important. What I am saying is the direction of such activities must be handled through the volunteer leadership (members) and the functioning or year to year operations maintained by staff as assigned. As the Discussion Boards never really had formal volunteer leadership in their inception, we had a hole that had to be filled. It is now filled and I believe you will get better service.

In other words, this was not the fault of the ASQ Staff, but of a lack of formally accepted volunteer leadership and the management mechanism that accompanies this. It would be no different a situation if a group called themselves a Section but did not elect leadership nor gain formal recognition so they could do the activities they desired.

Long answer I know but I wanted to be clear.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Coury Ferguson

Posts: 116
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 1, 2009 1:02 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

> But I want to bring out one small point. The ASQ
> staff does not answer to the membership.
>
> Steven Wilson
> Chair, Division Affairs Council


Interesting comment Mr. Wilson. So if I read this statement correctly, the ASQ Staff does not report to the membership. Hmm...one small thing that I see here, if all of the ASQ Membership was to drop their membership the ASQ would still be in business? I think not.

Note: If a Moderator wants to remove my comment feel free, but let's look at all aspects before this decision could be made.


Coury S. Ferguson, Quality Assurance Director


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 1, 2009 1:13 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Excellent Point, Coury!

Clearly, the salaries of those working as a paid member of ASQ headquarters come, in part, from member dues. Parts also come from sales of books, materials, training courses, etc. But yes it could be argued that the ASQ staff are paid by the members. So clearly if all ASQ members dropped their membership this would not only severely affect the Society (to say the least), it would affect the people working for it.

But my point was this. A staff person is employed by the Corporation entity of ASQ that is set up to service in a business manner the membership. But membership services are varied. We have anywhere between 4000 and 6000 volunteer leaders who drive policy and offerings in a given year. But we have over 95,000 members who are never really seen. Even at Section or Division activities. But they remain as a member in good standing getting some level of benefit from being a member. But if all 95,000 members started calling headquarters to do what they wanted, we would have a problem. So, the staff person, as any employee, is ultimately responsible to the employer and/or the manager that supervises them. For example, if an ASQ staff member did not do the job required by their supervisor, even if it did service a member's desire, they would not be an employee for long.

So it although this has little to do with the Discussion Boards themselves, many times we forget that the ASQ staff member is a small cog in a very big corporate wheel. It is never a very simple answer. In fact, I believe ASQ HQ has around 150 employees, as they have cut some for budget reasons. But I am sure they could use more and even if we raised the dues, it would be tough to afford more staff rather than fund the activities we are all passionate about.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 1, 2009 3:59 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Whoa, let's tone this down a little.

ASQ is a membership organization and as such is a service organization. As you will recall, publicly traded organiations are "owned" by the stockholders but a Board of Directors runs the company and the employees ultimately report to the Board, not the stockholders. The stockholders, in a publicly traded organization hold sway over the Board. ASQ is not publicly traded but the membership does, on a yearly basis, elect the officers that run the organization. Staff members of ASQ, like other organizations whether public or private, are there to do the administratie business of the organiation and they report to the leadership who WE AS MEMBERS elect. That's the way it has always been and has to be.

Members can always, and always do, decide whether or not an organization is a "good fit" or not. But let's not hang out the staff! And let me point out that Steve is not "staff" - he is a member just like you and me. His position is a voluteer position. Lest we forget, he has a real life job and a life outside of ASQ just like you and I do. He is doing his volunteer work because he believes in the organization and wants to make it better. I am a member leader, Treasurer of the Healthcare Division, which is a "volunteer position" as is the Chair of the Division. Steve's position and my position is a volunteer member position, not a paid staff position.

I am hearing that Steve has heard the concerns and wants to make the changes. However, large organizations are like large ships - they don't turn on a dime. He is working on it. There are organiational constraints just as there are in the organization that you work in. How fast does change happen in your organization?

If there is a need to change the way ASQ works, there is one way that you can do it and that is to get involved as member leader at a higher level of the ASQ organization. Work from the inside.

John


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 1, 2009 7:34 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

> Whoa, let's tone this down a little.
>
> ASQ is a membership organization and as such is a
> service organization. As you will recall, publicly
> traded organizations are "owned" by the stockholders
> but a Board of Directors runs the company and the
> employees ultimately report to the Board, not the
> stockholders. The stockholders, in a publicly traded
> organization hold sway over the Board. ASQ is not
> publicly traded but the membership does, on a yearly
> basis, elect the officers that run the organization.
> Staff members of ASQ, like other organizations
> s whether public or private, are there to do the
> administratie business of the organiation and they
> report to the leadership who WE AS MEMBERS elect.
> That's the way it has always been and has to be.
>
> Members can always, and always do, decide whether or
> not an organization is a "good fit" or not. But
> let's not hang out the staff! And let me point out
> that Steve is not "staff" - he is a member just like
> you and me. His position is a voluteer position.
> Lest we forget, he has a real life job and a life
> e outside of ASQ just like you and I do. He is doing
> his volunteer work because he believes in the
> organization and wants to make it better. I am a
> member leader, Treasurer of the Healthcare Division,
> which is a "volunteer position" as is the Chair of
> the Division. Steve's position and my position is a
> volunteer member position, not a paid staff position.
>
>
> I am hearing that Steve has heard the concerns and
> wants to make the changes. However, large
> organizations are like large ships - they don't turn
> on a dime. He is working on it. There are
> organiational constraints just as there are in the
> organization that you work in. How fast does change
> happen in your organization?
>
> If there is a need to change the way ASQ works, there
> is one way that you can do it and that is to get
> involved as member leader at a higher level of the
> ASQ organization. Work from the inside.
>
> John



@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Aah . . . .
Yes, John, but the point you make is "the Board" ultimately directs the organization policies and the salaried executives and staff carry those out.

Steve Wilson is a member of that Board but his last few posts seem to imply he and the Board are powerless to direct Mr. Borawski to set different priorities and thus different strategies for the disposition of staff and revenue.

I am not comfortable with Steve Wilson's characterization of the thousands of ASQ members who are not active volunteers in that he seems to imply they get benefits and should be glad they get them despite the fact they aren't "pulling their weight" by volunteering in some aspect of the mechanism called ASQ.

I took the time to reread through the registration materials and, curiously, didn't find any mention of an obligation to volunteer to receive benefits as long as the dues are paid.

Whether a member volunteers or not, even whether he votes for Board members or not, he still has a right to expect due diligence in looking out for the member's benefits and well being and, especially, looking for ways to enhance the membership experience and be able to draw a member in as a volunteer because he thinks his labor will do some good for the other members, not merely serve as an unpaid slave to the interests of a very highly paid executive director and HIS whims and fancies.

The fact remains - the Board has the power to direct the Executive Director to change priorities and reallocate
resources. The situation is they haven't. The question remains WHY haven't they? If the Board concurs with Borawski that the ASQ Forums should remain an under-funded afterthought, then we are all wasting time and energy dealing with this Board and should work to get a new Board more attuned to the will of the active members by directing our energy toward a grass roots effort to elect representatives from each of the Regions who ARE interested in what we are interested in. From there, we can work our way up to replace the entire Board and, maybe, eventually, the Executive Director.

It will take time, but we have already wasted five years and have seen zero progress - in fact, the addition of new forums without moderators could be viewed as a direct insult to those active folks who have lobbied against such new forums.
- Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 2, 2009 1:46 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Wes,

Thanks for taking the tone down to a more reasoned tenor!

I agree with you that there needs to be some action taken to address the issue of no moderators on the boards and the appropriateness of even having some boards. You may not be aware but there has been strong communication to the divisions to look at the management of their discussion board(s). The have been informed to either get a moderator for the board or to discontinue the board if the division is unable or unwilling to provide that administrative oversight. So, there is action in place to establish "ownership responsibility" for the boards. I don't remember off hand if there was a specific deadline to either get a moderator or stop the discussion board, but I do remember that message to the divisions was clear and direct.

I have looked at the recently (within the last year) and all the "new" boards have moderators for them. Now whether or not there is a good reason for establishing the new boards, I have some reason to believe someone is not watching the boards as it would seem that it is far too easy right now to start a new board. As you will note by my postings regarding the Health Quality discussion board, I don't think that should have been created. I do know that the Healthcare Division did not have input into the creation of this board. But these "new" boards do have moderators! So someone has been listening about new boards without moderators! So I don't think anyone has been "insulted" in the last year by having new boards without moderators. Please check for yourself and let me know if I missed a new board in the last year that doe not have a moderator. I could be wrong.

As for Board of Directors and your satisfaction with their ability to influence the oversight of ASQ, you have correctly stated that the democratic (note the small "d") way is to address this through the electoral method. Now please remember, the person you voted for to be President of the United States is not always the person that ultimately wins the election. But that is the democratic way of doing things. You may not agree with majority, but the majority does win.

Now to Steve's comment re members getting active. I am not going to join in that "dance" other than to say that I have noticed that within my own section in Tucson, a good number of our membership has their dues paid for by the large defense manufacturing company located here. Many of the ASQ members literally have no real "vested" interest in ASQ as a professional organization. They are a card carrying member only because it is provided to them.

Many people become members of professional organizations, wether it is ASQ or some other professional organization, just so that they can put down on their resume that they are members of the organization. They are "card carrying" members but are not "active" nor "vested" in the organization.

Another good example to this is AARP. Now tell me, how many of the members of AARP are "active" in the political activities and "voice" of AARP. Most are members because they can get discounts on a host of different things because they can show their membership card that they are AARP members to qualify for that 10% discount and the other benefits! That's the only reason. But AARP can then turn around and say that they represent such a large portion of the "senior" population in the US and they are the "voice" of their members. Only a small portion of the AARP membership are "active" in the goings on of the AARP organization and its views on certain things.

If ASQ members want to have ASQ change to be a "different" organization, then the "card carrying" only members do have to become more "active" - i.e. more vested in the activity and actions of the organization. Otherwise, its main value will be, for them, something they can put on their resume.

Wes, the fact of life is that there are "card carrying" members and there are "vested" members.

John


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 2, 2009 2:45 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Yep, John
Here's an excerpt from a Chicago Tribune editorial today. Its topic is the Illinois legislature and their unwillingness to do anything for the citizens, but merely self-deal for themselves. It has an eerie parallel to the situation with ASQ Board members and the executive director and their combined unwillingness to accommodate those "95,000 members" who don't happen to hold office or appear to be active. After all, you need some Indians - not everyone can be a Chief.

Right now, many of Illinois' 177 legislators are just as determined to protect themselves and their clout. They'll try to mollify you with reassurances that "I'm open to change" or "We're discussing this" or "Everything's on the table." Not good enough. Reject the pablum. Demand results.

OFF TOPIC:
Even if you ignore the "95,000" - what about those of us who ARE here and active? Are we denied a voice because we don't currently hold office?
- Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 2, 2009 3:39 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

My message earlier is being misunderstood. I even hesitate to try and make my message clear as I fear it will continue a debate that is driving the discussion off topic. But here goes....

My reference to the 95,000 was one that we are trying to service the needs and member benefits of all members of the Society. However, as several have suggested, it often occurs that those in volunteer leadership, and those who place a voice such as on the discussion boards, get the service they desire simply because they are the only ones really heard. This is often not due to the leadership not listening, they often ask. It is often due to not getting any response except from a few. But as we all know, the few do not always represent the whole. So there is a great quandary when trying to drive policy.

This is a driving problem with any volunteer Society. It is a far different concern in a corporation or a large workplace. There is often an easier way to get the opinions of the larger group.

There is often a statement that the current Board of Directors just does what they want. I heard this often prior to becoming a board member and although I didn't give it much thought, there was a piece of me that felt there was truth. I was in for a very rude awakening when I came on to the Board. I knew that rarely was there any truth to such allegations. However it is easily understood as the Board does not get faced with many of the finer details but of larger policy concerns. For example, until very recently the Board was presented with the annual business plan of the Society and a budget for that plan. Just as my experience in a government agency we put together a budget. But it is a large item budget. In other words we would get a line item for IT support. The explanation was there as to where it would go, but it would not necessarily state "upgrade of the discussion boards" rather it would state "web services" in support of the strategy placed on Headquarters by the Board. With a budget of approximately $35 million, the Board is looking at large financial decisions.

So unless the Board was alerted to a specific issue that needed to be addressed, it would not be discussed at the detail suggested here. Even in the case of the upgrade of the Discussion Boards, the Board did not need to be involved in that the funds came directly from the DAC and SAC who could institute change faster as is their charge. It must be understood as I described very early on, this entire problem occurred because we as a Society, however it was done, instituted an activity with no thought to its fundamental management. It was like a new toy, we just did not properly plan. It is desired and now that we have identified the issue we are trying to move to correct.

I cannot, nor will I try to, dispel any allegations against the Board and its actions. That is not for this thread. The Board meetings are open as are their minutes. Come and see for yourself.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 2, 2009 6:18 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

<SNIP>

>
> So unless the Board was alerted to a specific issue
> that needed to be addressed, it would not be
> discussed at the detail suggested here.
Even in the
> case of the upgrade of the Discussion Boards, the
> Board did not need to be involved in that the funds
> came directly from the DAC and SAC who could
> institute change faster as is their charge. It must
> be understood as I described very early on, this
> entire problem occurred because we as a Society,
> however it was done, instituted an activity with no
> thought to its fundamental management. It was like a
> new toy, we just did not properly plan. It is
> desired and now that we have identified the issue we
> are trying to move to correct.
>
> I cannot, nor will I try to, dispel any allegations
> against the Board and its actions. That is not for
> this thread. The Board meetings are open as are
> their minutes. Come and see for yourself.
>
> Steven Wilson
> Chair, Division Affairs Council


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

See, Steve, and others -
The argument limned in boldface above just does not wash.

As far back as 2003, beginning with ASQ President
Kenneth E. Case (2003-04)
then on to
Jerry J. Mairani (2005-06)
we concerned folk were being treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed manure) by these Presidents, who were each personally continually assuring us improvement of the Discussion Forums was a "priority issue," but somehow such priorities never made it to line item status. Instead, staff members who tried to be helpful in making any changes allowed by the nonexistent budget mysteriously found themselves terminated from ASQ.

I want to be absolutely clear that we have kept all the correspondence over the past six years to validate my statement here. There is no hyperbole involved. I do not hesitate to use the word "lie" when referring to the statements these top Board members made since I have been unable to find copies of minutes from their reigns when the Discussion Forum topic was discussed as a "priority."

I would be happy to retract the "lie" statement and apologize profusely if ANYONE can point to a public document available to any and all ASQ members which shows a Board meeting where the Discussion Forums were discussed as a "priority."
- Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 3, 2009 7:51 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Looks like the "truce" from January is getting a bit frayed. But I suppose I did initiate this latest chain with my email of a few weeks ago.

A few positive observations

Steve Wilson is staying with us and not throwing in the towel and deciding we are a bunch of misbehaving children, as did some of his predecessors. And we must watch out that we don't act that way either.

ASQ Staff (Web Services) has been very responsive to requests to move posts, remove posts.

We have been able to agree across staff, senior volunteers, and members that there is a problem with the discussion boards, and what the likely solutions are.

Negatives

We still haven't have any open discussion, let alone criteria, for establishment of new boards.

There is a rather heated discussion on the Minorities in Quality board questioning why it exists as we speak here.

It is all well and good to point out that some of us voted for the person who did not became president of the United States, but we ASQ members don't even get to vote for who doesn't become President of ASQ (insistence on the nominating committee only nominating one person, and then not allowing any "campaigning").

The ASQ board minutes have not been updated in over a year, except for "meeting highlights" for Feb 2009. Nothing about the annual meeting at last year's WCQI.
http://www.asq.org/about-asq/how-we-do/bod-min-full.html
Minutes seem to be posted consistently for a while, then peter out until someone points out they need updating.

-----------------

I'm sticking this out, still moderating one of the big boards, but I must admit I'm getting tired of the ongoing flails of dealing with this situation, in comparison to the alternatives out there. I'd like to see some progress, rather than just waiting for the "next software" which in the current belt tightening I can't see coming anytime soon. I firmly believe that the "fixes" for the discussion boards do NOT cost much money.

Thanks,

The other Steve (Prevette)


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 2, 2009 6:15 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Wes,

I have to take back my comment of your "reasoned tenor". Your last comment and comparison was way above the "reasoned discussion" line.

When you calm down, I will be happy to "discuss" this further. We may not agree but we have to be willing to discuss the how and why of the solution of how individual members can be heard and impact leadership.

BTW, Wes. You had made a statement about not being heard regards the need for moderators. Your stated that there are new boards being formed without moderators. I informed you that your statement was incorrect regards "new boards" not having moderators and asked you to verify my statement. I also informed you that action HAD been taken to get the Divisions to get moderators on their boards or to close the boards. I have seen the strongly worded message to the Divisions on this issue. There is active movement to resolve this issue. You did not respond to or acknowledged that.

Take a breath, Wes!

John


Message was edited by: John Harrison



Coury Ferguson

Posts: 116
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 5, 2009 4:54 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

> Excellent Point, Coury!
>
> Clearly, the salaries of those working as a paid
> member of ASQ headquarters come, in part, from member
> dues. Parts also come from sales of books,
> materials, training courses, etc. But yes it could
> be argued that the ASQ staff are paid by the members.
> So clearly if all ASQ members dropped their
> r membership this would not only severely affect the
> Society (to say the least), it would affect the
> people working for it.
>
> But my point was this. A staff person is employed by
> the Corporation entity of ASQ that is set up to
> service in a business manner the membership. But
> membership services are varied. We have anywhere
> between 4000 and 6000 volunteer leaders who drive
> policy and offerings in a given year. But we have
> over 95,000 members who are never really seen. Even
> at Section or Division activities. But they remain as
> a member in good standing getting some level of
> benefit from being a member. But if all 95,000
> members started calling headquarters to do what they
> wanted, we would have a problem. So, the staff
> person, as any employee, is ultimately responsible to
> the employer and/or the manager that supervises them.
> For example, if an ASQ staff member did not do the
> e job required by their supervisor, even if it did
> service a member's desire, they would not be an
> employee for long.
>
> So it although this has little to do with the
> Discussion Boards themselves, many times we forget
> that the ASQ staff member is a small cog in a very
> big corporate wheel. It is never a very simple
> answer. In fact, I believe ASQ HQ has around 150
> employees, as they have cut some for budget reasons.
> But I am sure they could use more and even if we
> e raised the dues, it would be tough to afford more
> staff rather than fund the activities we are all
> passionate about.
>
> Steven Wilson
> Chair, Division Affairs Council

Mr. Wilson, I appreciate your kind response.


Coury Ferguson
Quality Assurance Director


Side Note to Mr. Harrison: I am a Moderator in another Forum, which is also volunteer work. I devote a lot of my spare time on that board.

Coury Ferguson


Timothy Folkerts

Posts: 393
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 5, 2009 10:20 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

> First is the software. The current practice, either
> by default or hard wired, is to list the boards
> alphabetically. Therefore, if anything comes before
> "Ask" in "Ask a Quality Professional" it will be
> listed first. I am working on a fix.

One solution (simple but not elegant) is to add a character before the name that gets alphabetized first. For example, an asterisk or a dash often gets alphabetized before any letter. So if the board was renamed ** Ask A Quality Professional **, not only would the asterisks set it off, they would also put it at the very top of the list alphabetically.

Tim


Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: May 6, 2009 1:01 AM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Although I am trying for BOTH simple and elegant, simple will do just fine!

Thank you for the suggestion and I will contact our people to see if this can be done.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 2, 2009 10:08 AM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Steve W.

The ** is a good idea to get an Item to the top of the list.
Gregory S. Gay
Past Chair Inspection Division




Steven Wilson
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 2, 2009 10:35 AM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Gregory

Good points all.

I am currently in a bind at the office today and I want to give you and the others not only an update on the improvement activities but specific responses to your questions. I ask that you give me until later this evening to post again.

Sorry but sometimes the job just gets in the way!

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 2, 2009 12:09 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

Steve,
Take your time, at least on my part. Regards
Gregory




Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 2, 2009 9:38 PM
  Click to reply to this topic Reply

The work on the discussion boards continues. I wanted to report at this time the boards concerns have been "solved" however as we investigated the issues and possible solutions, some final conclusions were more elusive than planned.

Here is the best update I can provide for now:


• Moderators for all boards
We have required moderators for all boards. In fact the worst offenders of this rule are those of the Divisions. However, we have found that some of the boards have moderators and they are not listed. We continue to try and identify at least one per discussion board. I had set a deadline for the Division boards and was determined to "turn off" those that did not comply until the issue was corrected. But it turns out we have problems for some reason disabling one board in a class without disabling them all. Clearly this is a problem and again, we are working to solve this.

• Discussion board oversight
Originally it was planned to have the boards under the Non Technical Communities Committee. Once we began this process it was found this actually made it more difficult to deal with the demands of the boards and the non technical communities. Therefore, I have decided to continue as Member Leader lead until a more formal structure is in place.

• Review and evaluate current board to Consolidate, archive, reorganize/order
We have identified several boards that are inactive and they will be removed and archived soon. We are working with the moderators of boards of similar subjects to consolidate these. In addition, it was noted by some persons that two new discussion boards are in place. These boards are associated with two new networks of the Society. Society policy is to provide boards for any member unit, including networks, if so desired. Therefore, the concern regarding having too many boards may be one some must resolve to accept. One possible solution is to have limited Public boards and limit access to the Division boards to those who request access. Then it is the decision of the user as to how many boards are seen. Again, just one possible solution.

• Development and training of moderators, self directed learning
After looking at the many volunteers for the work, three "supermoderators" have been chosen to assist in the management of the discussion boards. This management group will work with HQ staff to develop the moderator training and its delivery. I cannot give a date on this yet but I will keep everyone posted.

• Explore moderator eligibility for RUs with the cert board
It has been agreed all moderators are considered member leaders much as a committee chair and therefore are eligible for recertification units.

• Updated software is under review for purchase. We are looking at a combination software that will meet several needs, including a very important feature of being able to sign in once and have access to all content applicable to the user. This software has many of the features we are looking for in the discussion boards including a voting feature for posts. Money here has not been the issue but in fact compatibilty with current software in the system. Again, I will keep you posted.

Finally, there have been many suggestions on various methods for improving the listing and order of the boards as well as other actions. I am working on this in combination with the points above to set a solution that will continue as a standard operating procedure.

I am sure that this may not be the news some wanted to hear. But I will continue to try and improve the discussion board experience while I can. Please continue the helpful suggestions.

Steven Wilson
Board of Directors
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM
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Thanks Steve,

You have helped drive some change forward. I wanted to see a reporting structure developed within the Volunteer Leadership reporting through DAC or a BoD committee reporting to the ASQ Board. Thanks,
Gregory




Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 7, 2009 10:31 AM
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I do think ASQ needs to relook at its policy towards "everyone can have a discussion board". That wouldn't be so bad if the software behaved more like the Elsmar cove, and you could sort everything on the most recent entry and see what you might be interested in responding to. And for new postings, the boards at the Cove are subtiered down from primary headings, so it is easier to tell where to post a new question to.

I see many new boards have been added, and there haven't exactly been a plethora of people swamping those boards. I myself have made the decision that enough is enough, and I am only going to participate on the boards I moderate, or the division I belong to.

Steve Prevette
Moderator of two boards.


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 7, 2009 2:05 PM
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Steve,
I also will only be looking at a few. Greg




Geoffrey Withnell

Posts: 700
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 8, 2009 7:41 AM
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Steve and Greg,
It seems that most of us that are fairly active on the boards actually only monitor a few of the boards. On some, it seems the only activity is the moderator trying to spark discussion.

Geoff Withnell
Moderator, Government and Quality Management boards


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 8, 2009 8:12 AM
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Geoffrey,
I would agree, even when I was more active on the boards, I was only watching 8 to 10. The current boards will improve over time with the direct activity of the moderators and other volunteer member leaders.


Timothy Folkerts

Posts: 393
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 11, 2009 7:11 PM
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Here is a handy way to watch the large number of boards....

On the main page, click on one of the four section headings - the gray lines (for example "ASQ Member Discussion Boards"). This will take you to a list of just the boards within that section.

Scroll down past the names of the individual boards to the bottom of the page. All the threads for all the boards are listed there, chronologically, with unread threads marked.

Read the threads you are interested in.

Scroll back to the top of that section. Click the "Mark all as read". Now all threads are cleared, so the next time you look, only threads since the last visit will be highlighted.

Go back to the main page and repeat for the other 3 sections (or at least the ones that interest you).


For me, that works much better than trying to pick out individual boards to read.


Tim Folkerts


David Levy

Posts: 47
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 11, 2009 8:30 PM
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Tim,
Great idea!
What I do is use the 'Watch this board' option so that I get an email each time there is a posting to the boards I am interested in. I cannot watch all the boards, nor am in interested in every one for the boards on ASQs site.

David Levy
SAC Chair (for a few more days)


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 11:05 AM
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Tim, I came across that method by accident about a week ago. It does work. Thanks for your posting.
Regards
Gregory


tyro

Posts: 185
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 7:50 AM
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> Society policy is to
> provide boards for any member unit, including
> networks, if so desired. Therefore, the concern
> regarding having too many boards may be one some must
> resolve to accept. One possible solution is to have
> limited Public boards and limit access to the
> Division boards to those who request access. Then it
> is the decision of the user as to how many boards are
> seen. Again, just one possible solution.
>

I've been watching this thread for some time and wanted to chime in to say that David Levy has pointed out there is already a mechanism in place for those who want to watch only particular boards - the "watch" functionality. In my opinion, it would be a waste of effort to do the things described above to appease those who are bothered by the number of discussion boards. Just use the functionality that is already in place to be kept abreast of the boards you are interested in following.

Personally, I like having unfettered access to all of the boards. I can't see restricting that and making members request to belong to various boards. Again, I feel that is overly-complicating something that doesn't need to be complicated, especially when there is already a solution in place.

Please remember there are a lot more members out here affected by these decisions than just the people who are posting in this thread.

I know the solution you propose is not set in stone, but I wanted to chime in anyway.

Thanks


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 11:27 AM
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Tyro, Thanks for your comments, I have enjoyed your posts on the other boards.





Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 11:44 AM
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I do want to point out that there is another issue with the multiplicity of boards - that is the decision by a person relatively unfamiliar with the boards - where to post a new question?

If you have a question about "education", there are at least six different boards that you could conceivably ask a question on, more if you are a woman and/or a minority.

I showed the discussion board start page to our Regional Director back in February and his response was - My god! How can anyone figure out where to post something to or even where to start?

As a moderator, I've had to deal with multiple postings of the same questions on multiple boards (currently against the Terms of Service, though I do know there are some that do not believe multiple postings to be a problem) and with dealing with questions that probably would get better responses on other boards.

The critical point is that there is no overall organization to the board structure, and many of the boards overlap in their subject areas. I do believe that this is a detriment to the member experience of using the board, but this is just my personal opinion.

- Steve Prevette


Timothy Folkerts

Posts: 393
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 12:21 PM
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I think Steve's concern is perhaps the key issues - where should you post (and what should youe read) when the boards overlap so much. A question on statistics could reasonably go into SEVEN different board (4 boards with "statistic___" in the title; 2 Six Sigma boards; Ask a QP).

So even if you want to read an contribute to ONLY that one area, you would have to watch 7 boards.

And for that matter, the section heading are confusing. What is the difference between "ASQ Member Discussion Boards" and "ASQ Memebers"?
* Why is Metrology in "ASQ Member Discussion Boards" but Measurement Quality is in "ASQ Memebers"?
* Why is Microbiology in "Public" but Biomedical in "ASQ Memebers"?


William Pflanz

Posts: 1,405
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 12:58 PM
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>
> The critical point is that there is no overall
> organization to the board structure, and many of the
> boards overlap in their subject areas. I do believe
> that this is a detriment to the member experience of
> using the board, but this is just my personal
> opinion.
>
> - Steve Prevette

Actually, the critical point is that we have been trying for more than 6 years to get ASQ to accept some recommendations for board improvement. A committee, sponsored by ASQ, was even created to review the problems. In 2006 a set of proposals were made to improve the board. Here is the introduction to the proposals made to ASQ:

Beginning in 2003-2004, a small group of regular users initiated communications with the ASQ Community Development group and Web Offerings to improve the functionality of the ASQ Discussion Board. In June, 2004, ASQ rolled out a new Discussion Board with a more robust set of features to address some of the problems and suggestions made by the regular users. A Discussion Board Suggestions forum was made part of the board to “encourage your suggestions and inputs” to help ASQ “continually evaluate and evolve these boards”.

In June, 2006 an unfortunate incident occurred related to multiple postings on the board by an ASQ member at the advice of an unnamed ASQ staff person. It resulted in a discussion in the Suggestions forum for the need for additional changes to the Board if it is to continue to function as a useful member benefit. The small group that initiated the June 2004 changes began off-line conversations with each other to discuss the board problems and make a new set of proposed changes. As the conversation continued, other ASQ members have joined the effort to identify and make recommendations for changes. The result of these conversations, is this proposal to ASQ management for changes to the ASQ Discussion Board to continually improve and evolve the boards as originally envisioned back in June, 2004.


Things are not moving at a snail's path but have really not effectively moved at all. Even the recent efforts of the last eight months have resulted in no meaningful changes. I personally would rather ASQ admit that they do not want to make any changes than to continue to act like any recommendations will be implemented.

Bill Pflanz


John Harrison

Posts: 433
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 1:03 PM
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Steve,

What I find interesting was that the Regional Director was apparently not "familiar" with the Discussion Boards. It goes to my point that these Discussion Boards are a much under-utilized member benefit. We somehow need to "market" this benefit - after we resolve the issues of course. But, even in its current state, it does provide a lot of value to our members that, my sense is, don't even know it exists.

John


Gregory Gay

Posts: 290
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Jun 12, 2009 2:19 PM
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John, The Discussion Board does provide a lot of value to our members and the public. And is somewhat unknown to both. There is a group trying to make the boards better.





Steven Wilson

Posts: 18
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Oct 20, 2009 6:24 AM
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Time has passed since my last message, but the improvement of the discussion boards has not been forgotten.

Another step in this improvement process was to appoint a lead for the activity. John Harrison of the Healthcare Division has graciously agreed to take on this role. In this capacity John will be a member of the DAC Admin Committee but his activities will be to provide improvement to all Discussion Boards regardless of whether or not they are sponsored by a Division. He will be joined at first by two additional “supermoderators” and we will look forward to more from him in the future.

Please assist John as much as possible to improve this much needed service to our members.

Steven Wilson
Chair, Division Affairs Council


Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Posts: 1,317
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Oct 22, 2009 4:01 PM
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> Time has passed since my last message, but the
> improvement of the discussion boards has not been
> forgotten.
>
> Another step in this improvement process was to
> appoint a lead for the activity. John Harrison of
> the Healthcare Division has graciously agreed to take
> on this role. In this capacity John will be a member
> of the DAC Admin Committee but his activities will be
> to provide improvement to all Discussion Boards
> regardless of whether or not they are sponsored by a
> Division. He will be joined at first by two
> additional “supermoderators” and we will look forward
> to more from him in the future.
>
> Please assist John as much as possible to improve
> this much needed service to our members.
>
> Steven Wilson
> Chair, Division Affairs Council


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Thanks for the update, Steve. I have this depressive feeling of Deja Vu, having heard a variation on this theme for more than five years. I respect John and his knowledge and passion. I hope I won't be consoling him in the near future as I have each of his equally ardent and passionate predecessors.
- Wes Bucey, Quality Manager


Steven Prevette

Posts: 1,488
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Oct 30, 2009 7:28 AM
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Much time has passed since I spent that cold (in more ways than one) weekend in Milwaukee last January.

Rumor has it on the Elsmar Cove discussion board that new software is ready for these ASQ Boards! Is there any truth to this?

I must admit to being rather disappointed in the lack of much visible change here in the past 10 months. Yes, ASQ Staff has definitely improved cleaning up SPAM and other technical issues, and we seem to have defused the accusations of improprieties on the Boards.

But there is still the mish mash of overlapping topics, and inability for moderators to move threads around, and to my knowledge, still no super-moderators.

I've really cut back my participation on the boards here to the two I moderate. Interestingly, I resigned four months ago as moderator of the Member - Leader Board (since I am no longer a Member-Leader) but am still listed as a moderator there.

I do invite folks to look at the Elsmar Cove, both for what a GOOD Discussion Board system can look like, and for some of the statements of frustration being made by ASQ members (and folks who could become ASQ members if their concerns were just listened to and some semblence of action taken).

Steve Prevette
Senior Member
Moderator of Students in Quality, and Ask a QA Professional


Jason Philip Ward

Posts: 38
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Oct 30, 2009 9:25 AM
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Given the focus on using SharePoint for the Communities sites, I would not be surprised for us to simply use it for discussion boards (it is built is).

All My Best,
Jason Philip Ward
ASQ CQIA CQI CQT


Aimee Siegler

Posts: 70
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Nov 3, 2009 2:52 PM
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> Given the focus on using SharePoint for the
> Communities sites, I would not be surprised for us to
> simply use it for discussion boards .

The discussion board will actually go into ThePort, which is ASQ's new group software. That function is not in the first phase - I don't have a timeline - just the knowledge of that portion of the plan.


Jason Philip Ward

Posts: 38
Re: Improvement of Discussion Boards
Posted: Nov 3, 2009 3:34 PM
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Aimee,
Thanks for that tidbit! I am sure the community here will devour it, and ask you questions that you cannot answer in due time... ;)

All My Best,
Jason Philip Ward
ASQ CQIA CQI CQT